Fruit flies? Of course novel proteins show up everywhere from fruit flies to humans. Zero. There is good evidence that the bacterial flagellum has evolved from a Type III secretory and transport system, given the similarity of proteins in both systems. CH: "We are a long way from having hard numbers"CH later: We're facing 10^100+ odds" it really is not so bad because globin is not the only solution available. This pattern that evolution predicts is sometimes violated. Troy wrote: Also note the strange language here: a "pattern" has been falsified. And let me guess, you want an example!Point made. "Wow, some heavy-duty claims, but not a single example to illustrate them. The presence of a region in two of the species “indicates that it existed in the gadid ancestor before the emergence of the AFGP.” The absence of a thymine nucleotide at a location in some of the species “very likely resulted from a deletion event,” causing a fortuitous frameshift which supplied the crucial signal peptide segment, telling cellular machinery that the protein should be secreted to the bloodstream. Presumably, in their hearts they are truthful. Pedant:===To quote-mine is to quote out of context. There’s only one problem: it is all junk science. The point of the OP is that the sequences that can code for a protein seem to be a tiny sliver of the entire sequence space. "Comparing ATP binding with the incredible feats of hemoglobin, for example, is like comparing a tricycle with a jet airplane. Thanks Rob CI checked those links. Your pencil might float in mid air at any time due to an unlikely, but inevitable, air pressure buildup. Cornelius says:"The gene for that protein duplicated, and then mutated until landing on a new protein that was needed. What do you think of Behe's new paper, where he describes several cases of gain of FCT, where the “'gain-of-FCT' adaptive mutation is a mutation that produces a specific, new, functional coded element while adapting an organism to its environment"?http://www.lehigh.edu/~inbios/pdf/Behe/QRB_paper.pdfShockingly close to fCSI and other ID definitions of information, which we've been told never ever can increase in natural processes?!? The evolutionary pattern has now been falsified many times over. Note evolution does not require any given type of protein, just something that produces an increase in fitness. In the case of evolution the tradeoff will always move toward increased theory complexity. Four billion years ago or so, basic chemical building blocks gave rise to longer polymers that had a capacity to self-replicate and to perform functions essential to life: namely, storing information and catalyzing chemical reactions. They are just variants of one another- it's not like they are diverging from a globin to a flagellar protein. Scott:===I wrote: But what does that mean? Why do such similarities imply an origin via evolutionary mechanisms? In other words, the fish were facing a colder environment, they needed some antifreeze in their blood, and the pieces needed for such an antifreeze gene were fortuitously available. Why do you believe the OP is guilty of quote mining?It was quote-mining because you deliberately left out the rest of the abstract where the researchers explained why the findings were not a problem for evolution. First it was mere ATP binding, now it is mere folding. The fact that most eukaryotes have distinctly similar ribosomes is evidence that the key biochemical molecules for protein transcription evolved early, … It may become 'needed' later, following subsequent evolution, such as dexcribed by Muller (1918), when he preempted irreducible complexity, but these things are hardly the same. And beyond that there are many universes. Rather than discover an external coordination system, such as traffic lights, we find what appear to be vehicles that are coordinated using an internal peer to peer system. QUOTE MININGSeriously, both of your sides do it, otherwise entire articles would have to be reposted in their entirety. So, that may fully explain it: it was CDarwin's metaphorical prescience that inspired him to understand the workings of natural selection. Cornelius Hunter:"Evolutionary answers to such questions are like all their stories. Would it be accurate to say this prediction was falsified? "Again, evolution doesn't require a globin. However, they're only used in very limited situations because we're not technically advanced enough to use them on the majority of vehicles.. === replied: Right. The responses here are a good example of educated stupidity. 13:1711–23- - - Nature doesn’t have designed library. The very nature and definition of a FACTOID(which is the true nature of the published assumptions) is beautifully explained & defined for us from any dictionary. ===Good catch. In fact, such intellectual dishonesty only highlights how desperate you must be. Too often such problems are solved with vague accounts of “adaptations” and “selection pressure” doing the job. "that is exactly the point- the novel proteins that Robert was referring to in humans (e.g. And of course this story must have repeated itself thousands of times to create the many different proteins in biology. Since such a network would require coordination if actually used for transportation, we may predict the discovery of a traffic signal-like coordination system throughout the network. Thus there is no heroics needed===No, I was referring to novel proteins. This is completely evidence-free. I'M SURPRISED I HAVEN'T FLOATED YET--GIVEN ALL THOSE UNIVERSES." Did protein kinase regulatory mechanisms evolve through elaboration of a simple structural component? Note evolution does not require any given type of protein, just something that produces an increase in fitness. If Y is false, then X must be false.It is difficult to find those sorts of predictions. The comment about quote-mining was a secondary issue. This is true for navigating from one place to another and even something as simple as parking. "I'd try the animations that go with Boyer's textbook:http://www.wiley.com//college/boyer/0470003790/animations/animations.htmThe Protein synthesis and then Protein folding sections, and possibly the Enzyme activity section are probably what you are looking for. The protein in question is a so-called “antifreeze” protein that keeps the blood of Arctic codfish from freezing, and the new research provides the specific sequence of mutations, leading to the new gene. And it reflects either naive empiricism or a disingenuous portrayal of science which suits his agenda. Pedant said... Hunter quoting me: === To quote-mine is to quote out of context. Of course not. Of course novel proteins show up everywhere from fruit flies to humans. What's the point?If we predict an iPod, but find a Walkman, was that a failed prediction? "Actually, some demonstrating cooperative folding had Tm in the 50's and denatured in 2M GnHCL. But, this prediction would be based on a different underlying theoretical assumption in which the specific variation is relevant. "What about a hemi-globin? It finally provides scientific details answering the age-old question of how nature’s massive complexity could have arisen. "Nature has five million trillion trillion bacteria and billions of years to work with. But unless we factor the underlying explanation behind why an iPod was predicted, this significant variation is inconclusive. They come in different shapes and are involved in various biological functions, including metabolism, immune response, muscle movements, and more. So we have empirical evidence of new functional coded elements evolving. ===But Robert, when you say "OF course humans have a few proteins, brought about by duplication" you think you have resolved the issue. It didn't have to. There is no quote mining in the OP. RobertNatsch and Eugene et al.....I have a question for you. What novel protein fold or class of reaction do humans have that dogs don't? Evolutionists have swept de novo genes under the rug so the rest need not consider them, or even be aware of them. "The past several years have seen novel insights at the interface of protein biophysics and evolution. This is true for visible features as well as at the molecular level. 22. After all, there are different forms of life, altogether, and then there is the multiverse, and then there is no life at all. An alpha-turn-alpha? Suddenly, I don't know if Hollywood is getting some of it's best material from hiring spies lurking around these boards or if Evolutionists get their retorts, rants and diatribes from the magic presented by Hollywood.Ever hear of the Sci-Fi flick "Sliders" ???